Game ruin

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  • Hey Calli, hey Juli,

    yes, I checked the replay and thank you for your patience.

    I will tell you in the following steps, how Tinker acted in that game and I found two situations, which were critical for me:

    Vidal laned as tinker with Sven on the bottom lane vs solo Slark (Chen was woods and Luci was laning on top).
    They shared their farm and Sven kept on pushing to their tower, which got criticized by Tinker. At min 4 Chen came out of the woods with some animals and ganked Sven + Tinker - both got killed (huge sign, that tinker did not use mh, otherwise he had gone earlier b).

    At min 04:50 sf came into the Sentinel woods, where Chen could successfully kill sf and Tinker finished Chen with rockets there. At min 5:30, tinker went to the toplane to gank with his team. Krob went hiding there at the secret shop, but it was obvious, that he was there, so they caught him easily. After that, he was laning on top with Void, while Sven stayed on the bottom lane to farm. The Sentinel went aggro on him and ganked him with Krob + Lucifer on top and also got killed there by the Krob Ulti.

    When he revived, he tped to Sven on the bottom lane again and helped sven vs Chen + Slark. Also sf was hiding closeby in the woods, to wait for a good gank situation. At min 11:00, he had his tp boots ready (he had a magic wand as a start item). He tped to the top and signaled somewhere at the secret shop, but noone was at the toplane, that he wanted to gank together with void.

    At min 12, he saw Slark for a little moment in the woods at the toplane and went immediately b. At 12:50 min, he tped to the bottom lane to help sf and to defend the tower from Krobel. He got scared off by Krobel at min 13:20 by the spell usage of Krobel, but could not spot any enemy, so that he tped top to his team. At min 14:30 he tped bottom with void and ganked the pushing krobel (who resistent tried to push that fucking t2 tower, while his team was wooding).

    He played carefully - when he was in the middle between the river and the tower, he tped back to the base, bought his dagger and tped back to the bottom lane at min 15:40 (all of the Sentinel were missing). He spotted Krobel on the bottom lane, but I think, that his way was not too obvious for me. First Krob went into the woods to escape and then to the t1 tower, where Tinker followed him without problems. It might be luck here, but then he really got a good map awareness, that he could see that escaping way.

    He tped first to the base -> then mid -> then bot -> then base -> then mid (17:50 min) (he always used rearm instant, when he tped) -> 18:05 min base again -> 18:20 top. On the toplane, he pushed until the lvl 1 tower, but saw Slark incoming from the rune side (sf bought observer wards) and could bait him pretty well. He went over the river, daggered over the invis slark and baited him to the neutrals, where also was sf closeby and ganked with him together. At min 19:10 they chased Slark together until the ancients - tinker daggered to the secret shop and sf choosed the way over the ancients. At the ancients, Chen was waiting and Luci and Slark were also incoming from the midlane. Sf got killed, but could pwn Slark to some red hp and tinker daggered right at that secret shop way and finished Slark with his laser. Then the tping kept on going: He tped into the midlane, scared the pushing krobel away (once again with sven) and tped base then again. After that he tped top to push -> base -> mid -> 21:00 base again -> mid again (was oom to help sf) -> tped base -> mid -> base -> top -> base -> mid
    At min 23:30 he saw Slark incoming by sfs ancient ward and could escape his pounce with his dag. He kept on pushing mid, bought his hex after at the secret shop.

    At min 24:20 -> tped base -> mid to help sf and void, but got killed, when Void put his chrono and Tinker got ganked by the backside of Slark (also a sign for no mh) and got killed. At min 25:30 he went mid again to help void, who escaped with red hp of Slark (sf also joined the midlane). 26:14 tped fountain -> mid -> base -> bot (27:14) + helped void in their woods. There he got ganked by Luci, Slark and Krob, who wasted all their stuff on him.

    At min 28:54 he revived and tped top to the pushing sniper (who destroyed his items) and killed him with rockets + a laser.
    At min 29:31 he tped into the midlane, when all were missing and immediately daggered away, when Slark tried to jump on him.

    30:00 min, he tped back to base. When he tped back into the midlane at min 30:19, he immediately got jumped by slark and slark could kill him successfully (void did not bother to help tinker) (also a sign for no mh). At min 31:50 they started to push their base and Tinker joined Void there and pushed with him the ancients. Also there, he got ganked by Slark, but could escape successfully with his ghost.

    I marked the red situations as situations, that I really could not explain to myself and I would appreciate, if someone else also looks in those specific moments. I would say, that he is not using mh, but that he got a great mapawareness and that he played pretty clever, since he had to spot lucifer and slark as his anti-heroes.

    Have a good morning and best regards, Berna

    17:31 SYD.Berna: I am happy jugger vosje
    17:34 Vosje_RuLLeZ: aight
    17:36 SYD.Berna: to play ap on bk
    17:37 Vosje_RuLLeZ: not drunken jugger?
    17:40 Neimie: =)
    17:40 SYD.Berna: :D
  • imo most interesting moment is around 16 min when he killed krob botlane. sure you can expect an enemy to juke, but he daggered pretty fast to the right spot. if he had waited with blink until there was vision into sentinel woods to check the most obvious escape route of krob to fountain, it would be totally fine. however, blind blinks onto enemies in fog are always fishy. it could still be a good guess, no compelling evidence for mh. on the other hand there were also signs suggesting clean play (for example his first death to chen gank at botlane).

    the other timestamp at 29:30 is not that good of a proof imo. he was far out pushing in the midlane, enemy team missing. kinda obvious that sentinel will go on him there, i would blink out much quicker in that situation. the timing is a bit lucky, but luck is part of this game.

    btw chen also sold his items and bought mass salves.7 days ban for gameruin.
  • Hey Hajst,

    I am not sure, if he did not just want to fish us at min 4, because he said to Sven, that he should stop pushing and Chen caught him in the middle of the lane. Could be, that he underestimated the stun of that centaur in that moment.

    I also do not understand the signal at min 11:20 min, when he and void were top. Btw, who did not vote for the ruining sniper? I would also ban them there, he was 0 13 and the whole team told, that he sold his items.

    Also the moment at 19:10 min - not sure, why he choosed the way there at the secret shop and not together with sf at the ancients.

    Best regards, Berna
    17:31 SYD.Berna: I am happy jugger vosje
    17:34 Vosje_RuLLeZ: aight
    17:36 SYD.Berna: to play ap on bk
    17:37 Vosje_RuLLeZ: not drunken jugger?
    17:40 Neimie: =)
    17:40 SYD.Berna: :D

    The post was edited 1 time, last by SYD.Berna ().

  • Hey there.
    I played many times with Filial and he is a good player. Sometimes, you don't wait to SEE where they go, you have this feeling they will be there, and you dagger in (or out). Sometimes they are indeed here, and sometimes you dagger for nothing or into a huge trap xD
    But if you always wait to see where the ennemy goes before you dagger to him, with the Fog of War, you can lose him very often if he can play properly with trees/hiding spots. To me Filial has a high enough skill to be able to decide when he jump in or not. This time it was well played of him. No sign of MH for me.